Written By: Dail Eireann
On Date: 15/10/2005
Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will move to a single stock management system for the commercial netting of wild salmon; the timetable for such a change. [28333/05]
Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Gallagher): Management of the wild salmon fishery is rarely a simple and straightforward matter. It is the Government’s long-held view that our wild salmon stock is a national asset which must be conserved and protected, as well as being exploited as a resource by all on a shared and sustainable basis.
While there remains an abundance of salmon returning to Irish rivers, the Government has accepted the scientific advice that reductions in the overall fishing effort are required to sustain and rebuild salmon stocks nationwide. For this reason, current Government policy has been designed to bring spawning escapement up to the level of the scientifically advised conservation limits as soon as possible. In keeping with this policy, when setting the commercial salmon quotas for the 2005 season, I gave a firm commitment to fully align the exploitation of salmon, both at national and district levels, on the scientific advice by 2007.
I have asked the new national salmon commission to advise how best the alignment of exploitation of salmon with the scientific advice can be implemented by 2007, bearing in mind the requirement to ensure the future biological viability of the salmon resource in all catchments and also the needs of all stakeholders, including those who derive their income from the wild salmon resource.
A move to single-stock management of the wild salmon fishery would take time and significant additional resources. This could not be achieved without further and considerable scientific input, infrastructural investment and planning. The impact of such a move would have to be fully examined and understood before its introduction. I expect the national salmon commission along with the relevant State agencies to examine the prospects for single-stock management within the Irish fishery and to advise me in this regard. I can assure Deputy Eamon Ryan that I will examine carefully all recommendations, including those relevant to single-stock management, made by the national salmon commission.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: The national salmon commission could not agree what time of day it is, let alone this issue, and the Minister of State knows that. The Oireachtas committee has examined this complex issue in detail and drew a simple, urgent and adamant conclusion, which is the move towards single-stock management. Recognising that it will take some years to do that, the committee recommended an interim procedure for a voluntary buy-out. It would ultimately mean the complete cessation of drift netting at sea. The Minister of State needs to provide a yes or no answer on that matter. It is his responsibility to decide and he can no longer hide. If we delay making a decision for another year we will have a recurrence of this summer's events when the Minister of State ignored scientific advice and issued a quota for 150,000 fish, yet the catch was down to 100,000. That signifies what the scientists have been saying for years - that salmon stocks are at crisis levels and are close to extinction of the species in many rivers. Unless the Minister of State acts now the situation will be irreversible.
This is an important political issue. If it comes to a vote, it is clear that parties in the House have committed themselves to an end to drift netting. The Minister of State must make a decision. If we are to do it for next summer, he will have to make a decision now and use the interim months to establish the system recommended by the Oireachtas committee. I want to hear if the Minister of State's answer is yes or no. If he cannot give an answer, why not? We have spent long enough talking about this matter and examining it. The ball is in the Minister of State's court and he must decide what arrangements will be put in place. He should not pass the buck to a commission that cannot possibly decide on the issue.
Mr. Gallagher: I would have thought that Deputy Eamon Ryan, of all Members of the House, would understand clearly that the issue is not as simple as that, although that may be the perception. More people in this House, as well as people in the media, should take the time to understand all this.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: We have done so and we came to that simple conclusion.
Mr. Gallagher: There is a need to establish the level of information required to manage the fishery on a single-stock basis. It is not a question of saying yes or no. It is not as simple as that.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: It is.
Mr. Gallagher: Of course it is not.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: It is.
Mr. Gallagher: This would be required on an individual river basis. Anyone who knows anything about fish stock management would realise that it is not as simple as the Deputy suggests. While many of the requirements have been or are being put in place, the level of information is not yet sufficient to permit the management of fishery on a single-stock basis. Those who served us well for a number of years on the national salmon commission, which I have re-appointed, will do so again while representing the stakeholders. They are people who are particularly interested in ensuring that we will have a sustainable fishery. We are the custodians and we want to assure these matters into the future.
The Deputy tries to give the impression that nothing has been done but in 2002 we had a quota of 219,000-----
Mr. Eamon Ryan: Ignoring the scientific advice.
Mr. Gallagher: -----that decreased last year to 139,000. The Deputy is not interested in those statistics but he knows this country has been built on the principle of partnership.
Mr. Durkan: True.
Mr. Gallagher: There is a partnership arrangement within the national salmon commission whereby its members advise me.
The Deputy forgets that it is not all about science. There are human and social factors involved also. If I went to Europe in December to fight on behalf of the Irish people on the basis of science alone, the Deputy and others would be the first to criticise me for not taking the human and social factors into consideration.
The Deputy should get into his car or on his bicycle and visit the west coast and the islands to see the importance of this matter to the people there. I am being responsible in this matter despite the fact the Deputy and others are trying to portray me as otherwise and suggest that I am only interested in local politics. Of more than 800 licences, approximately 120 of them are in Donegal. The Deputy should remember the extent of the coastline from Malin Head to Bundoran. The Deputy needs to be realistic and sensible. I will work with all sides to try to ensure we have a sustainable salmon industry into the future.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: Prior to my election to this House, I spent my entire working life on the Donegal coast and I know exactly what the Minister of State is talking about and I appreciate the need for social development. However, it is in the interests of those people as much as those of everybody else that we follow scientific advice and protect the species for the long-term future of those people. While the Minister of State spoke of partnership, ultimately we live in a democratic Republic and certain decisions, as with this one on whether to continue drift-netting, must be made at a political level by the Minister of State. If he fails to make that decision nobody else will make it for him. We cannot put it off for another year which would result in exactly what the Minister of State has said. Three years ago we caught 200,000 fish and this year it will be 100,000. If the Minister of State continues as he has done, next year this could reduce to 50,000 which would finish off the stock forever.
Mr. Gallagher: The Deputy chose to ignore the late run. He should go to Waterford and speak to its representatives where it was necessary to extend the season by one week because it had to be interrupted owing to the presence of the tall ships. The Deputy can talk to many others who are much more familiar with it.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: We can only catch 100,000 fish.
Mr. Gallagher: I recently presided over a meeting in this city at which we established the regional advisory council for the north and west coast waters. All the fishermen with an interest will have an input into the matter. While we are talking about other species, the matter must be considered from a number of perspectives.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: The Minister of State should make a decision one way or the other.
Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he has reviewed the recently submitted recommendations from the sub-committee of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources regarding the issue of drift and draft net fishing and the dangerously low levels of salmon stock; if he will abide by said recommendations; the consultations he took on the issue; the steps he will take from here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27759/05]
Mr. Gallagher: While I am aware that the Joint Committee for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources submitted recommendations yesterday, 11 October 2005, regarding the future management of the wild salmon resource in Ireland, I have not had the opportunity to consider those fully in the intervening 24 hours nor have I had the opportunity to undertake any consultations on the committee's report since its publication. However, I welcome the publication of this report and take this opportunity to thank the joint committee for its decision to conduct a review and give all stakeholders an opportunity to be heard by the committee. This has illuminated the various and wide-ranging issues surrounding the management of this important natural resource.
The Deputy will be aware that as part of this review, the joint committee held public hearings in April of this year. When addressing those hearings, I made the point that the management of this natural resource is rarely a simple and straightforward matter. I also reiterated the Government's long held view that our wild salmon stock is a national asset which must be conserved and protected as well as being exploited as a resource by all on a shared and sustainable basis. I am pleased, therefore, to note from the report that the joint committee acknowledges the complexity of this issue and makes "the unequivocal observation that its report must not be seen in terms of winners or losers and that the debate and focus of effort must be on the survival of the salmon species".
I will examine carefully the recommendations made by the joint committee in this regard. As an immediate first step, I have already asked the new national salmon commission, which held its first meeting yesterday, to ensure that the joint committee's report receives priority in its consideration of how best the wild salmon resource may be managed, conserved and exploited on a shared and sustainable basis into the future, having regard to Government policy.
Mr. Perry: Does the Minister of State intend that the Department's officials, in addition to the salmon commission, will study the report and offer their recommendations? In light of the EU's unhappiness with the way Ireland is dealing with this, has the Minister of State reacted to the correspondence from the Commissioner for Fisheries? Ireland is the only country in the north-west fishing region that permits drift and draft netting. The British Government is also unhappy with this situation and has published an angling charter.
It was dismayed that Ireland is the only country where drift net fishing is allowed. Does the Minister of State agree with the point made by Deputy Eamon Ryan that recommendations as to the number of licences to be issued were ignored by the Department? Does he intend in the coming year to abide by the scientific recommendations?
Mr. Gallagher: Both my departmental officials and I will study this report. We will also be in correspondence with the EU on the subject of fisheries and the general environment. It is very difficult to explain this situation. Even Deputy Perry accepts there is no other commercial fishing of salmon in the north west. I am confident Deputy Perry is not trying to deceive the House but he knows well and I will remind him that following a voluntary buy-out in the north east of England costing £3.25 million there are still 25,000 salmon being commercially landed in the north east of England. A similar buy-out in Ireland would be very substantial. If authorities in some other countries are telling us it is not happening anywhere else then they are mistaken. I ask the Deputy not to take my word for it but to ask the UK authorities who will provide the same information. We need to start from the same base if we wish to arrive at a conclusion.
On the question of the scientific advice, I did not hear Deputy Perry or many of his colleagues shouting last June when we established a quota of 139,900. I repeat this was the advice from the Salmon Commission and it was accepted by me and by all my predecessors in office. The scientific advice changed at the last minute. This was a partnership arrangement. The members of the Salmon Commission come from varying backgrounds. They presented me with this advice and I accepted it. It was not a case of me being advised by them to accept a quota which I then increased. The only sin I have committed is that I have taken the advice I received from the Salmon Commission, as did my predecessors. We are striving to achieve what was advised by the year 2007.
Mr. McCormack: I note the Minister of State did not disclose what was contained in the report of the sub-committee he stated he received 24 hours ago. Is he in favour of buying out the drift net salmon fishermen? Will he do so or will he stand behind the report? The Minister of State and the Government are responsible for the decision. Will he offer a buy-out scheme to the drift net fishermen in order to preserve the salmon stocks for angling and other tourism purposes?
Mr. Gallagher: I am not averse to doing so. I want to do what is right for the country, for angling, for tourism and for the commercial sector. It is possible to have a balance between commercial fishing and angling and tourist fishing. However I am opposed to the transfer of a resource from one sector to another at the expense of the Irish taxpayer. I am still awaiting offers from those who have both informed me and stated publically on numerous occasions they were prepared to make a contribution. I ask the Deputy to consider that if it were to be banned or if there were to be a complete buy-out, other important factors cannot be ignored. I refer to the issues of pollution, poaching and global warming. I have also asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to examine the issue of seals.
Mr. Broughan: The Minister of State should not forget the cormorants.
Mr. Gallagher: I am not averse to buy-out, if it is the right thing to do.
Mr. McCormack: I will take that as a "No".
Mr. Gallagher: I cannot think for the Deputy.
Mr. Broughan: Fishermen have stated that the cormorants are another factor.
Mr. Durkan: They are swooping down.
Mr. Broughan: I support the comments of the previous speaker. What is the Minister of State's attitude to the report? Colleagues on this side of the House worked on the sub-committee. Given that all sectors must work together to arrive at a reasonable solution, does he not agree the report issued yesterday suggested a reasonable solution?
My great predecessor as Labour Party spokesperson, Michael Bell, four years ago proposed a buy-out under certain conditions. The report suggested a reasonable solution moving towards single stock management. Will the Minister of State endorse this finding and move forward on that basis in 2006?
I have a question to ask of both Ministers. Were they disappointed at the stance taken by the Progressive Democrats in this regard? I described that party as possibly an equally endangered but less useful species than our beautiful salmon. Will this issue bring down the Government? Will the eight Progressive Democrats, that small species of right-wing economists and business people, pull the Government down over this matter because of its lack of action?
Mr. Durkan: There would be some fish to fry then.
Mr. Gallagher: I acknowledge the work of the sub-committee, three members of which are here in the Chamber and Deputy Durkan was a member at one stage. I have no hang-up about this matter. I am not in the luxurious position of being in Opposition; I must do what is right.
Mr. Durkan: That could be arranged.
Mr. Broughan: The Minister of State might be the man to save the salmon.
Mr. Gallagher: My duty is to do what is best for Ireland-----
Mr. Broughan: He does not wish to be vain.
Mr. Gallagher: The situation is very complex and the answer is not a simple "Yes" or "No". I invite any party who wishes to present me with a report but it is ironic that many of the reports are similar, with a great deal of cutting and pasting.
Mr. Broughan: That is a Progressive Democrats report.
Mr. Gallagher: I did not say that.
Mr. Broughan: Is that a PD report, a cut and paste job?
Mr. Gallagher: I advise any individual or group wishing to formulate a policy to talk to all parties.
Mr. Broughan: Was the report presented to the Minister of State?
Mr. Gallagher: I received it by post.
Mr. Eamon Ryan: All parties were party to the report. It does not recommend a complete end to commercial netting but hopes that better management will bring an end to it in the future. I can speak for my party - I do not know what the Fianna Fáil members can say. The Green Party requests that the Minister of State act on the report's recommendations.
The Minister of State is willing to talk about buy-out arrangements and he has referred to the cases in England. Is he willing to arrange a meeting, as a matter of urgency, with Mr. Vickerson, who was involved in the negotiations in that case and in four other similar agreements? He is a member of a conservation organisation that might help fund such a buy-out. If this issue is to be resolved before the next season will the Minister of State agree to meet Mr. Vickerson?
Mr. Gallagher: I have corresponded with Mr. Vickerson and have indicated my willingness to meet him. My office will be in communication with him in the near future-----
Mr. Broughan: Did he offer funding?
Mr. Gallagher: It is a case of "wait and see". He has not offered funding. I am anxious to meet anyone who may be prepared to make a contribution.
I assure Deputy Eamon Ryan I referred to the important role played by all members of the sub-committee.
Questions to the Minister of Marine